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Report 213
Report #213 Skillset: Combat Skill: TrueShield Org: Serenguard Status: Completed Jun 2009 Furies' Decision: Will reduce trueshield effectiveness by 50%. Problem: Currently, with how Trueshield works any combatant with Splendors with a 70/70 stat and a shield of 40/40 get the protection of 110/110 which is equal to that of a warrior with fullplate. On top of that if they go with the 52/52 Shield Rune Artifact that boosts that upward to 122/122 which is far higher than even a warrior can get for protection. With the passive hindering from any of the Caster types gives those with such protection a huge advantage which in turn causes many warriors to not be able to surpass even medium wound state on their target. As an addition, since KATA DEFLECT works the same way for monks it should be switched to have the same effect as TrueShield. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Change TrueShield to add half the stats of the shield onto the current protection of the robes and make Kata Deflect an equivalent to. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Same as Solution 1 but also allow full body protection. Player Comments: ---on 6/8 @ 20:05 writes: I'd rather the second solution to spread the protection across all areas while curving down the overwhelming amounts of what it is now. ---on 6/9 @ 00:44 writes: Solution number two sounds the most agreeable. It would assist non-artifact warriors in building some decent wounds, but the spread of the protection would be beneficial for non-tailoring robe wearers, and help prevent one hit pinlegs. ---on 6/9 @ 01:59 writes: Solution #2 seems best ---on 6/10 @ 17:33 writes: Solution 1 would be best. As it is now, the most effective way to hinder/slow your target is to go for the legs. To add the effect of trueshield to the legs, would make it worse for the knight to really build any sort of offense at all. ---on 6/10 @ 18:04 writes: Solution 2 sounds good, I don't think allowing full body protection is going to hinder warriors building wounds that much, while giving those non-tailoring robe wearers decent protection ---on 6/14 @ 02:31 writes: Definitely gotta cover the legs if we're nerfing it. Solution 2. ---on 6/16 @ 02:06 writes: Just an observation of the numbers, we've got: 70/70 splendors. 52/52 shield rune. That is 70 + 26 96/96 on all body parts, with suggestion number two. Fullplate's maximum as of now is 100/100. Is this really what you're all looking for in terms of actual protective comparison? ---on 6/18 @ 22:27 writes: If those umbers are correct, perhaps Solution #1 should be changed to be 1/3rd of the Shield's stats instead of 1/2 ---on 6/19 @ 22:02 writes: I'm just going by the numbers put in the report as the problem. But the suggestion #2, as-is, is essentially fullplate + 4 proofings. Bit more expensive since it's a trans item + a shield rune, but given that robe-wearers generally have more passive ways of stopping an offense than warriors do... it's warrior protection, plus proofings, plus more passive hindering (dodge / ents / demesnes / etc). It seems a bit excessive to me, really (currently trueshield is REALLY excessive in the areas it protects, but at least it does not protect everything so there are options...) ---on 6/20 @ 17:14 writes: But what about the fact that robe wearers tend to have on the order of 1/3 to 1/2 the health of a a warrior? We are also looking at the extreme high end - a person who has both chosen tailoring as their trade and purchased a shield rune. I still believe that Solution #2, as is, is the best fix. ---on 6/20 @ 18:29 writes: I don't know if solution 2 is necessary - do we really need more legs protection? It's hard enough for most warriors to build an offense as it is. I think solution 1 would probably be okay. ---on 6/20 @ 18:31 writes: Honestly I'm not even sure that solution 2 is much of a downgrade at all considering most warriors' offense revolves around the legs. ---on 6/20 @ 23:10 writes: If we reduce the effectiveness of trueshield, then we need to have it cover the legs. While we can argue whether protection should be balanced around a shield rune, a person should not need to take tailoring to be combat viable, and warriors, especially ones with runes, can hit very, very hard. The protection is needed. Also I believe that arguing that the protection might be too high simply because it is near what fullplate is worth is a fallacy...where is the proof that this is actually a bad thing? And as I said before, reducing the number of one hit pin legs is a good side effect...killing two birds with one stone. ---on 6/21 @ 05:34 writes: I do not see the logic in people saying that trueshield should not be balanced around shieldrunes and splendours, then turning around and proclaiming that warriors with weapon runes tend to hit very hard, necessitating said protection. You either take into account arties for both sides, or neither. It is not wrong to argue that robe wearers do not deserve fullplate-like protection, especially taking account that all shield users have proofs and usually a decent enough passive offense (plus active offense, naturally) to hinder a warrior from hitting as quickly or as efficiently as he wants to. In fact, using 'regular' robes of 50/50 + a regular shield of 40/40 nets a protection (if this change goes through) of 70/70 + proofs + passive offense + stance + parry + rebounding + natural miss rate. That is definitely more than enough to get by considering that warriors usually have to lunge, etc (power moves) in order to make any headway to begin with. Additionally, with trueshield being how it is, warriors hit legs exactly because of trueshield not protecting that bodypart. Personally, I would not be opposed to trueshield covering legs as well with the caveat that total body part protection cannot exceed 75/75. Trueshield can buff parry plus whatever else as well in addition. --- Shuyin ---on 6/21 @ 14:45 writes: Hmm. That's a decent alternative, putting a cap on it. But that would be a pretty hefty nerf to the shield rune. If the buff to parry is related to shield stats, that might work out better (for example, a 52/52 shield might allow for pretty accurate parrying of two locations, instead of the current "splitting parry over two locations is not usually the best idea"). Instead of passively having massive protection everywhere, you have a greater ability to protect your body using parry effectively. ---on 6/22 @ 00:35 writes: I didn't mean to insinuate that we shouldn't balance around shield runes, only that splendours should not feel like a necessity, since they are a trade skill, and choosing to get a shield rune and splendours should offer you some pretty nice protection. My concern is that we are talking about a considerable nerf to trueshield (50% is a lot), with no compensation. Warriors can kill people pretty well now, though I concur that it can be a little ridiculous trying to build wounds on those parts covered by trueshield. But the protection will be to be compensated somewhere else, for reasons I've already mentioned. ---on 6/23 @ 00:13 writes: You're discussing reducing it by 50% *on the places it protects,* while further expanding it to cover everywhere (including legs), which ends up making it a pretty large buff in that regard. "Fullplate-like-protection with 4 proofs" might be all right on the limbs covered by Trueshield normally (solution #1), or we could go with removing the protection altogether and allow the stats to give a nice buff to parry. Full-body full-plate with 4 proofings is excessive. I'm not really sure why you feel it needs to be compensated elsewhere for being reduced to Full-Plate-Protection on the protected limbs. ---on 6/26 @ 03:34 writes: It was brought to my attention by Ceren and Melville, after a bit of studying on their part, that Trueshield is already half the shield stats on top of robe stats so perhaps adjust this to be 1/3 the stats instead. ---on 6/26 @ 04:31 writes: Weapon runes and splendours are totally different balance considerations. If you could get non-decay splendours as any tradeskill it would be another matter. ---on 6/27 @ 14:52 writes: Psst, finding out that your report was based on assumptions that were so incorrect that you ask for a change that's already reality, is not the best time to ask for a more severe nerf. As it stands, top end splendours/artie shield (supposedly 125/123, lol) take notably more wounds than 108 masterarmour (about 100 wounds more), and even that's just on the trueshield protected areas. It's roughly comparable to warrior helm on head/chest/gut. I can actually see where this idea came from because when trueshield first came out, it was in fact giving out numbers similar to spec plate (that's plate biased to one protection or the other, like 125/80), but apparently it's since been ninja nerfed. Needless to say, I disagree with the solution as presented, but I want to point out that there's something still overpowered about trueshield: the shield arm is pretty much immune. It should be nerfed to the same degree of protection that head/chest/gut get.